Highland Pony Enthusiasts Club
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
Author: Subject: straw based chaffs and liver issues
Jeanette
Administrator
********




Posts: 13184
Registered: 9-5-2007
Location: Hampshire
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 16-10-2013 at 05:11 PM
straw based chaffs and liver issues


I did some googling and came across some posts on horse and hound to the effect that straw based chaffs (including fast fibre) are not helpful for ponies with liver issues as they produce too much ammonia for the liver to deal with.

I don't know anymore than that. Could be just nutritionally treated straw that is in question.

Has anybody else come across this advice. I think it originated from Dodson & Horrell?

View user's profile View All Posts By User
Myrtle
Posting Freak
****


Avatar


Posts: 1274
Registered: 25-3-2007
Location: Ceredigion
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 16-10-2013 at 05:56 PM


Ordinary straw wouldn't be a problem; it's got a low protein/nitrogen content. However, urea-treated straw (as sometimes fed to cattle) would be different.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Moonysmum
Hero Member
******


Avatar


Posts: 7081
Registered: 11-10-2004
Location: Nairnshire, Highlands
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 16-10-2013 at 06:22 PM


What about these feeds that are sold to be fed in large amounts as hay replacers? I give Jester Fast Fibre and Hi Fi Lite and Good Doer by the bucketful - aaahhhhh!:eeek:



View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Heatherrose
Posting Freak
****


Avatar


Posts: 1099
Registered: 18-9-2012
Location: Llangeitho, Ceredigion
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 16-10-2013 at 07:55 PM


I use simple systems feeds, the Timothy chaff is cut at the end of the season so low sugar and has not been sprayed etc so it is literally just chopped low calorie hay, ideal as ponies think they are getting a bucket of feed! The bag is huge and really compressed so with three on it it lasts me over a month!



View user's profile View All Posts By User
ClaireandTosh
Fledgeling
*




Posts: 93
Registered: 13-6-2008
Location: Norfolk
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 16-10-2013 at 08:20 PM


Interesting how that could be a link to liver problems. You might find the Thunderbrook feed website interesting as she has information on there why feeding chemically treated straw is not good for the horse and possibly a waste of money too.



View user's profile View All Posts By User
Jeanette
Administrator
********




Posts: 13184
Registered: 9-5-2007
Location: Hampshire
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 17-10-2013 at 12:12 PM


I rang the Dodson & Horrell helpline. The lady I spoke to is going to ask Theresa Holland to give me a call..but in the meantime she confirmed that straw (treated or untreated) is not recommended by D&H for a horse/pony with raised liver enzymes
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Heatherrose
Posting Freak
****


Avatar


Posts: 1099
Registered: 18-9-2012
Location: Llangeitho, Ceredigion
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 17-10-2013 at 12:48 PM


I would only ever use Simple Systems or Thunderbrook feeds, they are the only ones that are not a bye product from the human food chain, thus the only ones not chemically treated



View user's profile View All Posts By User
Jeanette
Administrator
********




Posts: 13184
Registered: 9-5-2007
Location: Hampshire
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 17-10-2013 at 01:27 PM


I've spoken to Thereas Holland. She suggested that Rannoch's puffy eyes is almost certainly insulin resistance despite him having tested clear for it (on a simple test) and may have something to do with him having been an undernourished in his early years. She said to google "epigentics and insulin resistance".

Very important to keep him slim.

Her suggested diet for him was : 10kg hay (soaked if necessary to maintain him at correct weight), milk thistle, yea sacc ( indicated as undigested long fibres evident in his poo), a decent mineral and vitamin balancer (i.e. one that includes minerals, vitamins , lysine and methionine at the levels included in the D&H ultimate balancer)

..oh and keep up the exercise!...long lining him with a saddle on and weight strapped to the saddle if needed to increase the calories being used if no time to ride him

Alphalpha useful as a plant source of lysine and methionine. Don't worry about the iron...but use just a little to feed the balancer in

Straw or straw chaff NOT helpful at this stage for him

No oil..so no linseed or copra or any other feedstuff with oil in it

Small amounts of high quality protein..ie. lysine and methionine

Really important to make sure he is getting the full 10kg of fibre going through ..even though soaking is a pain

Also higher than usual levels of copper supplementation only indicated as necessary for Cornwall and Aberdeen.

She was familar with Dr Kellon's work but not completely supportive

[Edited on 18-10-2013 by Jeanette]

[Edited on 18-10-2013 by Jeanette]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Highlandtango
Super Moderator
********


Avatar


Posts: 6771
Registered: 26-1-2005
Location: Staffordshire
Member Is Offline

Mood: Is wishing the weekend was longer!!:)

[*] posted on 19-10-2013 at 11:01 PM


Artie had ragwort poisoning about five years ago if you remember and last winter was the worst ever with him. I rang top spec and spoke with Katie and she suggested just grass instead of fast fibre or safe and sound. He has maintained his weight and is going into this winter looking better. Interesting what you put. I'll monitor the others too



View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Jeanette
Administrator
********




Posts: 13184
Registered: 9-5-2007
Location: Hampshire
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 19-10-2013 at 11:17 PM


What I have noticed is that the pee doesn't smell as strong when he's stabled since I stopped using a chaff with straw in it or sugar beet.

The trug is now a bit of an apology ..all perky ears just for what amounts to barely a tablespoon of stuff in it! I do sometimes make a grass chaff with a pair of scissors and some strands of hay. I used to have a bark chipping machine but sold it on ebay..rather regret that now!
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Moonysmum
Hero Member
******


Avatar


Posts: 7081
Registered: 11-10-2004
Location: Nairnshire, Highlands
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 20-10-2013 at 08:29 AM


Bark chipping machines dont work very well Jeanette - tried that! You need a chaff cutter. I am changing gradually from the straw based hay replacer to chopped Timothy and Simple Systems lucerne based products and readigrass. He hasn't had a bad liver result but just to err on the side of caution.



View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Jeanette
Administrator
********




Posts: 13184
Registered: 9-5-2007
Location: Hampshire
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 20-10-2013 at 10:23 AM


I nipped into Scats yesterday to see if they had a straw free chaff....nope!..everyone of their chaffs had either straw , molasses or artificial sweetners in it

I'll have to go further afield to find the tack shop that does Simple systems stuff.

I'm thinking that it's easier just to make sure there is soaked hay available at trug time than bother with a chaff...what a pain though. Soaked hay is such a faff for grass kept ponies when the hose pipe is not situated in a handy place. Hopefully only a few more weeks of soaking though before the weight can be kept under control with unsoaked hay and access to more grass.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Moonysmum
Hero Member
******


Avatar


Posts: 7081
Registered: 11-10-2004
Location: Nairnshire, Highlands
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 20-10-2013 at 10:46 AM


I do soaked hay for Ishie but Jester cannot manage hay anymore because of his teeth/age. Not sure if you can get Halleys feeds down south but their Timothy chop is good and a bit cheaper than SS.


http://www.halleysfeeds.co.uk/equinehighfibrechop.html




View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Myrtle
Posting Freak
****


Avatar


Posts: 1274
Registered: 25-3-2007
Location: Ceredigion
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 20-10-2013 at 12:21 PM


Obviously if you have a pony with particular health problems then it's important to follow veterinary advice.

But for our two good doers, good quality straw gradually introduced into the diet is a great way of giving bulk without calories at certain times of the year. In terms of nutritional quality it's not very different to that of rough grazing during the winter months (compared with hay/haylage which is preserved summer forage).
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Kingsmoor
Hero Member
******


Avatar


Posts: 8456
Registered: 9-2-2005
Location: South Somerset
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 20-10-2013 at 03:58 PM


Quote: Originally posted by Julie  
I would suggest that, given the problem appearing all over the country, that if you have a vet visiting, get the liver enzyme test done. There are few symptoms shown with liver disease and the test is about ú20.


I have suggested this at our yard - not on an alarmist way but just that if your vet is out for any reson in the coming couple of months a test might be a good idea - and the yard manager had a right go at me this morning! And here I am with one dead pony and two more with a problem!!




View user's profile View All Posts By User
Merriander
Posting Freak
****


Avatar


Posts: 1374
Registered: 16-3-2009
Location: North Yorkshire
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 20-10-2013 at 05:45 PM


How awful kingsmoor, some thought needs to be given to you by others. It blatantly makes good sense to do a test.
View user's profile View All Posts By User

  Go To Top

Powered by XMB 1.9.11
XMB Forum Software © 2001-2009 The XMB Group
[Queries: 18] [PHP: 65.8% - SQL: 34.2%]